Monday, February 6, 2012

News Feed Comments
You are here: Home / Company Reviews / Some Hard Questions About The Numis Network

Some Hard Questions About The Numis Network

February 10, 2010 by Dennis Volz  
Filed under Company Reviews

Comments

I’ve been hearing a lot about the Numis Network lately. There’s a lot of talk about this one-of-a-kind Network Marketing company. It certainly is unique in that it’s the only one, at least to my knowledge, that sells numismatic coins.

I also hear lots of ’slogans’ — “Autoship that increases your net worth.” and “Why Not Buy Money”. These are coupled with lots of comparisons to other traditional network marketing products because, “You don’t have to test it, learn how to use it, drink it, develop a taste for it or demonstrate it — Because IT’S MONEY!”

Seems that the slogans boil down to the comparison that with everyone else you get ‘useless’ stuff that can pile up in your garage, but who wouldn’t want a garage full of MONEY!

This concept troubled me, so I did a little research.

Buying money looks like a good idea. On the surface, it sounds like a no-brainer.

But is it?

I’m a numbers guy because I believe that in dieting and business, the figures never lie.

So I went to an expert. A gentleman I know right here in San Diego who has been buying and selling coins for over 30 years. Makes a VERY GOOD living at it, I might add.

Here’s what he told me:

Most uninformed consumers purchase these coins at retail. They have four values:
1. Retail
2. Wholesale
3. Spot
4. Currency.
Retail is what most consumers will pay for the coin. Wholesale is how much a dealer will pay for them either from another dealer or from a consumer who wants to “cash in” his coins. Spot is simply the value of the metal. Currency is the value of the coin to buy something at Walmart.
He also gave me the wholesale values of the two coins described below – AKA; Reality.
(I encourage you to check this out for yourself with a coin dealer in your area. Just call a local coin shop.)

The true value of any asset is the amount of dollars you can get in exchange. Your house is worth what a buyer will pay you for it in dollars. A car lists for $2900 in the Auto Trader for 3 weeks and the seller finally takes the best offer of $2000. That car is worth $2000. Doesn’t matter what the seller paid for it.


The 2009 MS 70 PCGS Silver Eagle sells at the Numis Network for 149.95.
Let’s look at it’s four values:
Retail: 149.95
Wholesale: $25-50
Spot: $15.54 (1 oz of Silver 2/9/10)
Currency: $1


The 2009-W PR70 ANACS $50 Gold Buffalo sells at the Numis Network for $1,899.95.
Let’s look at it’s four values:
Retail: $1,899.95
Wholesale: About $100 over Spot ($1180)
Spot: $1080 (1 oz of Gold 2/9/10)
Currency: $50

If these numbers are correct and unless a collector can unload his entire collection at retail prices (unlikely) then his “assets” from The Numis Network are worth 1/3-2/3 of what he paid and likely never to recover back to the retail price.

If you’re spending $150+ a month on an autoship, do you want to be buying anything with a liquidation value that’s 1/3-2/3 of what you paid for it?

That’s NOT increasing your net worth. That’s destroying it.

NUMIS STATEMENT (from their website):
Investment Disclaimer:
Collectors purchasing coins from Numis Network should view such purchases strictly in the context of purchasing coins as collector coins. Numis Network does not promote the collecting of numismatic coins for investment purposes, nor provides any investment advice whatsoever. Numismatic coins may decrease or appreciate in value based on numerous factors, including spot price of silver, gold and collector’s demand. Collectors should consult their own financial expert for any investment advice.

Seems to me that Numis Network is selling “money” at an inflated price. They make it clear in the above statement that you should be in this as a COLLECTOR not an INVESTOR. They seem to be saying to get these if you like to collect them, but don’t expect to break even or much less make a profit.

Spending $2000 over a year on numismatic coins to find that you have a set of coins worth $700 or $800 can be a little disturbing.

Let’s keep our eyes wide open here in the marketplace…

ADDITION 12/16/2010:  While prices of these coins may have changed from the original writing of this post, the investment concepts remain the same. Know the wholesale/liquidation value of any investment BEFORE you purchase.  Coins can be especially volatile.  Get information outside and in addition to the “advice” you get from the person selling the coins.


Dennis Volz is the owner of The Red Hot Millionaire Marketing Alliance and the author for The MLM Resource Center .com.
www.TheMLMResourceCenter.com
www.MLM-Toolkit.com

Post to Twitter Tweet This Post

No related posts.

Related posts brought to you by Yet Another Related Posts Plugin.

Tags: ,

  • Ed Fugatt
    Hey Dennis: One of the founders of Numis just offered to buy 5000 MS70 American silver eagles from some guys that said they could get the same coins for $35. You need to tell your local coin dealer about this. He also offered a $5K finders fee if they deilver. The offer may still be good.
  • dennisvolz
    Ed,

    I'm not sure why you're struggling so much with the concept of Retail vs Wholesale. You can't go out and buy these coins for $35 as a retail customer. Dealers will give you (the last time I checked which was just before I posted this article) $25-$50/each for these coins if you bring them in to exchange for cash. They will retail them for a higher value. That's how they make their money.

    Hope that's clear!
  • The rest of the story! (The second time)

    I am a little surprised. You are in MLMer yourself and you choose this
    approach. You must not know our industry very well. There are dynamics
    of our industry that most MLMers know. Let me help you with just a few
    and couple them with your article.

    First, the "I can get it cheaper at Walmart" dynamic applies to all mlm
    products. If not, how do the distributors get paid? But I got to say
    that your article is a little disingenuous and I am being polite.

    Your comments are misleading and they can only be misleading because the
    information is untrue or the author is un-intelligent. So lets try and
    find out which category you may fall under.

    Here is my personal numis shopping site - www.shopnumis.com/gbl. Check
    out the retail price for a MS70 Silver American Eagle. It retails at
    $119.95 plus shipping and tax. Not $149.95. Now in all fairness you published your Numis article in Feb 2010, I was not in Numis at that time, so maybe the retail was $149.95 then, but I dont think so.

    I noticed that your so-called expert apparantly does not want his name published. Isn't that interesting? The Numis Network expert's name is Mike Mezack. He is not ashamed to let people know who he is. If you research Mike Mezack, you will find a lot of information. One reason I can think of as to why your expert don't want his name published is because he knows of Mr. Mezack and the expert fears the scrutiny of his peers. I cant speak for Mr. Mezack, but I would lay odds that if your expert does have a bunch of real ANACS, NGC, or PGCS certified MS 70 American Silver Eagles for $25, Mr. Mezack would probably want to buy every one he has. Only true business people will figure this one out.

    As to the price comparison, I agree with you, that you can probably get the same coins cheaper, but a fellow MLMer should be asking this question - How much is the $25 dollar MS70 Coin wholesaler paying you to purchase his product?

    Additionally, as a fellow MLMer (Peoplestring), you should know that any MLM product by itself can not compete with the "Walmart" versions by themselves, but when you market the product through an MLM business, you will beat the "Walmart" versions everytime. To explain this, I submit a challenge to you. You buy your $25 MS 70 coin and I buy one of my MS70 coins today for $150 (your price), and after a year I will have more asset value in my coin than you do. We dont know how much the coin increases in value in a year, so lets assume the wholesale value of our 2 coins is $50 at the end of the year - the price doubles. In my MLM, if I enroll another like minded MLMer, I will make $100. Lets say that I am a horrible MLMer and can only enroll one person every 3 months. In a year I will make $400. At the end of the year, You and I both have one coin each worth $50 (your price). Lets do the math. You paid $25 and made $25 net ($50-$25). I paid $150 and I made $300 net ($450-$150). This is an illustration of the power of Multi-Level Marketing and being a fellow MLMer, you know this. I now have to ask - why didn't you include this part?

    Second, I can google any product, MLM or person, and find something negative. For example, lets pick a random insurance company like "state farm insurance". This is a great insurance company to me, but if you google "state farm insurance fraud", you will find some interesting
    things. You can also google "peoplestring scam", and find some more interesting things. Its the same for any product, MLM or person. Heck, google "Jesus Christ".

    You know, I am sure you are a great guy, but there are some issues here. As of Feb 2010, we know that you were involved in some way with the website "The MLM Resource Center.com", and are apparantly a member of a MLM Company called Peoplestring (A good MLM company by the way) and a State Farm Insurance Agent. As such you know that in a MLM, the only way to make real money is to have a big downline. In a market of over 5000 MLM companies, you have to use every bit of leverage you can to get as many people in your downline as possible. There are good and honest ways, and some not so good ways.

    In my opinion, it is a dishonest way when someone misinforms the public about a competitor to enhance his personal business, but each of us has to make up our own mind.
  • dennisvolz
    Regardless of "the numbers", Ed, the marketing of most reps is as stated above, “Autoship that increases your net worth.” and “Why Not Buy Money”. It's misleading to the average consumer who buys these coins thinking they're actually worth what they're paying for them. Not true!

    I encourage you, or anyone to simply call a local coin dealer and get the numbers for yourself.

    In business and in dieting, "The Figures Never Lie."

    And, by the way, there's nothing DISHONEST in this post and I resent the insinuation as such . Retail prices may have changed, values do go up and down but the CONCEPT of the investment 'scam' remains in tact. Numis reps are selling to a misinformed public why buy into their untrained and unfounded "investment strategies."

    People are getting financially hurt and THAT'S why I posted this. Not to discredit anyone or any company but to simply alert people to LOOK FOR THEMSELVES and then make an INFORMED decision.
  • Great information Dennis,

    I see more and more people jumping on this "Numis Network" bandwagon without doing much homework (such as this).

    Keep up the great work!
    Robert Breiner
  • bobandannabassett
    This is great, Dennis! You've done some excellent research and presented it in a straightforward and easily understandable way. Always a treat when someone blows away the smoke and breaks the mirrors. Your article will help us help many others considering this company. Thanks again from Bob and Anna!
  • Teresa
    I appreciate your investigation Dennis. I almost joined them today but wasn't feeling totally confident in it yet. It is always good to go with your gut instinct.
  • dennisvolz
    Hey, Teresa,

    Glad the thoughts I offered may have helped you make the right decision for you. Are you in a company now?
  • williamffay
    very astute critique, Dennis. Thanks for having the courage to write it. =Bill Fay=
blog comments powered by Disqus